Dr Rudd's Nine Hierarchies of Angels

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Re: Dr Rudd's Nine Hierarchies of Angels

Postby Slater » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:19 pm

Seavel wrote:But in key of Solomon it is suggested that angel are controlled like that. For example "The first pentacle of Venus.-- This and those following serve to control the spirits of Venus, and especially those herein written. " And in the pentacle there are angels like Nogaliel.


In the Key of Solomon, some of the workings utilise angels to make the spirits do what you require them to do. The Spirits of Venus they refer to are not necessarily angels, although Nogahiel is. I'm not calling them demons either...but if they are being controlled, they are not angels.

The angels can be utilised to control the lessor spirits for want of a better term. (like the way Rudd uses the Shem ha-Mephorash angels to counter the Goetia). You're not going to boss it (angel or archangel) around though. In whose name would you order it about?

In my opinion, you also will not get an angel to screw with someone's freewill either.

You do not need an $800 gold seal. Parchment/card/paper works. Follow the KOS sections on blessing and consecrating the ink, the paper and the incense etc. Even the KOS says that's fine if you can't use metal ones.
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Re: Dr Rudd's Nine Hierarchies of Angels

Postby Seavel » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:25 pm

It isn't the seal of an angel to be made of gold, but part of construction holding the crystal/glass (in The Magus).
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Re: Dr Rudd's Nine Hierarchies of Angels

Postby Slater » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:46 am

Seavel wrote:It isn't the seal of an angel to be made of gold, but part of construction holding the crystal/glass (in The Magus).

yeah know..its the sheet behind it for reflective purposes. You can substitute shim material in brass or bronze. You can buy it from a bearing or hardware store.

The $800 seal thing was something phoenixfollowsme mentioned.
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Re: Dr Rudd's Nine Hierarchies of Angels

Postby Magus11 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:13 am

Seavel wrote:
Magus11 wrote:Image

Sorry for bugging you, but from what book is this photo? It's strange, but there is no such drawing in The Magus.


It is from "The Secrets of the Magical Grimoires" By A. Leitch There is also a similar description giving here = http://www.esotericarchives.com/tritheim/trchryst.htm

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Re: Dr Rudd's Nine Hierarchies of Angels

Postby Magus11 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:46 am

phoenixfollowsme wrote:I never used the seals from Rudds book. I used his extremely lengthy incantations. Sometimes if its too hot I won't use these incantations, but seeing as I am starting to enjoy saying the incantations... Something very holy about it all, I don't mind doing it in the right atmosphere.

Bit worried about Kings comments on deception... But nothing too strange has happened to me, just the normal stuFf one experiences during evocation attempts. I quite like the spookiness of it all lol


At first I found the invocations quite lengthy, but after a while you get used to them and really enjoy reading them. You are right they do have a rather holy feal to them. I love these invocations, they work really well every time I use them, infact I find the length of them to be just about right to help evoke the required state of mind within me to facilitate contact.

You know when the angel is there, as there is a very noticeable holy feel to the experience, like a strong feeling of awe suddenly descends upon you.

The only negative effect I had working this system was with Cassiel which I have described elsewere on EM forums. It was due to my lack of thought about what I asked for and not because of any untoward spirit manifesting.

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Re: Dr Rudd's Nine Hierarchies of Angels

Postby Magus11 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:53 am

Slater wrote:
Seavel wrote:It isn't the seal of an angel to be made of gold, but part of construction holding the crystal/glass (in The Magus).

yeah know..its the sheet behind it for reflective purposes. You can substitute shim material in brass or bronze. You can buy it from a bearing or hardware store.

The $800 seal thing was something phoenixfollowsme mentioned.


Although not part of the Rudd system, I would not substitute brass or bronze for gold because the symbology is totaly different as well as its composition. Its just best to stick to the basics that Rudd's system says to use. the reason why I used the design taken from the Magus book is because I was instructed to use a triangle by the angel Raphael, and afterwards I found it was used in that book and also used in Trithemius's The art of drawing spirits into crystals.

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Re: Dr Rudd's Nine Hierarchies of Angels

Postby Slater » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:04 am

Magus11 wrote:Although not part of the Rudd system, I would not substitute brass or bronze for gold because the symbology is totaly different as well as its composition. Its just best to stick to the basics that Rudd's system says to use. the reason why I used the design taken from the Magus book is because I was instructed to use a triangle by the angel Raphael, and afterwards I found it was used in that book and also used in Trithemius's The art of drawing spirits into crystals.

Darren

That's where I first saw it too. I'm experimenting with the brass sheet as used in shim material and I'll let you know how it goes. It maybe that it's better to do without it altogether than use a substitute. A lot of people use the glass/crystal ball without anything behind it. The Almadel doesn't use gold for example...I know that's a totally different and much more elaborate set up though.

I'm placing the ball right in the centre of that triangle you posted from Trithemius. Did you mark yours out on paper/card or construct it from wood etc?


Illustration is the Almadel.
Image
Last edited by Slater on Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dr Rudd's Nine Hierarchies of Angels

Postby Seavel » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:20 am

Anyway, Rudd's system is lacking any protection, there is not even pentacle, and we have to wonder which grimoire paraphenalia would fit there.
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Re: Dr Rudd's Nine Hierarchies of Angels

Postby Magus11 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:04 pm

Slater wrote:
I'm placing the ball right in the centre of that triangle you posted from Trithemius. Did you mark yours out on paper/card or construct it from wood etc?



I have a a piece of ply wood painted with blackboard black paint, cut to the size of the top of the games table I use as an altar. The games table top is removable and I replace it with the plywood blackboard piece that I draw the symbols on in white chalk. The original games table top is a chessboard on one side and on the reverse I painted Dee's table of practice

oratory 005.jpg


Seavel wrote:Anyway, Rudd's system is lacking any protection, there is not even pentacle, and we have to wonder which grimoire paraphenalia would fit there.


I don't think protection is needed because you are not dealing with tricky infernals, but instead you need carefully thought out requests ;)

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Re: Dr Rudd's Nine Hierarchies of Angels

Postby lgdvl73 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:52 pm

eee gads! Its naked! Get some silk over that thing! :oops:

(i.e. your balls are showing)

That's a really good idea to use a converted gaming table as your altar.

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