Enochian Yoga

General Enochian Discussion

Enochian Yoga

Postby lgdvl73 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:11 pm

I am currently in the process of creating an 18 posture series of Yoga to be used in conjunction with the enochian calls.

The Asana's are based on my experience with Korean Dahnhak (Energy Science), and are technically called yeon-dahn (loosely, burning/purifying energy).

I had a realization about attributing the calls to the energy body based on studies of Benjamin Rowe's work. In particular, he has a recurring vision of an energy flow moving backwards through the zodiac. His public work discussing the polarity of the first and second calls resonated with me deeply as well.

In other aspects of my work, I discovered an attribution system that relates the flow of energy through the 12 meridians of the human body, to the 12 signs of the zodiac. What I find synchronistic enough to engage in this creation of an 18 posture yoga, is that when you run my zodiac energy flow backwards, and attribute it to the last 12 calls, the common symbolic markers we see in the calls themselves line up. Specifically, call 7, the house of virgins is in fact Virgo. call 11, the eagle is in fact Scorpio. call 16, the house of justice is in fact Libra.

Obviously, this is experimental in nature. But I am very curious about initial opinions. What I am proposing is an 18 posture Yoga that one would practice daily, which includes as a component to each respective posture, its attributed enochian call. The practice, when complete would take about 1 and a half hours, and consist of a complete purification system for the energy body of the magician. It does require that the calls be memorized and intoned with the eyes closed while in posture, while focusing on vibrating the call within the specific area of the energy body of the magician that the call is attributed to.

This then would be a preparatory practice and constant discipline in enochian work. The idea is to simultaneously teach the enochian language as well as get the magician purified, as well as prepare the energetic structures of the subtle body (chakras and meridians) for entering the Aethyrs.

The 18 call 1 and half hour discipline (which integrates the exercises needed to achieve perfect health, as well as strengthens focus to the degree needed to effectively enter an Aethyr), would then be performed as a preparatory exercise before the meditation where the Aeythr is entered. Further, the suggested practice for doing this is on a 31 day retreat while the Lemonade Fast is observed throughout. Fasting, exercising, chanting, and meditating. Enochian Yoga would then be an Aesthetic form of Enochian Practice, focused on purification and realization.

The way I am creating this is also worth noting. I have memorized all the calls at one time or another, but never all at the same time. I record the version of the call I am working on (Currently 3), and then make a hypnosis program using brain entrainment software. Every night I write the call into my subconscious mind, until during waking meditation, the posture spontaneously arises. Obviously, my predetermined cognitive notions about the attributions of the calls are going to heavily influence this arising, but my attributions of the calls were revealed in the appropriate manner. i.e. through the use of a Qabalistic Key which took 7 years of constant study to develop, as well as practical application of the enochian system over years combined with study of the published documents of users who have engaged the system practically. As each posture arises, I add it to my daily practice, so currently, I am practicing calls 1 and 2 everyday with their respective postures, and entraining call 3 every night, while memorizing and studying it during the day. The posture has already arisen in my practice, so as soon as I add call 3 to my automatically available list, I can move on to call 4.

It is obviously my personal technique and arising of the system. I am very curious as to what others may think of this process.

The brain entrainment makes it possible to easily maintain a witnessing (non-dual) state while chanting the calls. They have been written into my subconscious digital delay, and no thought is required to access them, meditation remains unbroken.

Yes, my life has become incredibly....unpredictable, but it feels divine. I am becoming physically healthier, sharper, blah blah blah. The effects of a pure working of the angelic currents are manifesting, and the ecstasy of wakefullness (even in sleep and dreams) has been slowly, and deliciously, increasing. It has been incredibly difficult, as a lot of habits and behavior patterns have had and in some cases still need to be adjusted...all in all pretty par for the course thus far.

Feedback would be wonderful at this stage of the game.

T
shit happens, flowers grow
User avatar
lgdvl73
Supreme Magus
 
Posts: 1643
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:36 am
Location: Gotham, Team America

Re: Enochian Yoga

Postby Frater Yechidah » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:42 pm

Personally I don't really like the mixing of systems (I keep my martial arts and chi kung seperate from my Western magic, excercise, and energy work), but good luck with this endeavour. I do recall that the Schuelers wrote a book called "Enochian Yoga", however, which you might want to check out. I haven't read it, so not sure how useful it will be for what you're trying to develop.

LLLSHJ,
Yechidah.
User avatar
Frater Yechidah
Supreme Inner Guard
Supreme Inner Guard
 
Posts: 663
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Enochian Yoga

Postby lgdvl73 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:39 pm

Schueler's work gets slammed, always. Deservedly so in many cases. But the Schueler's are independent thinkers, and for that, should be respected on purely those terms. They have a complete system, workable within its own contexts, and completely undesirable (or so it seems) to the masses. They get flack on a different plane, but it is the same kind of flack Duquette gets. Anybody or any persons devoted to a practice will get their own results. Within each and all, are gems. Complete systems, are full of a lot of them. It may taste like cotton candy pop culture, or raving fantasies of steak and soda, or any other taste that may at first be unpleasant. But spitting it out is missing the real action. I think Scheuler's work is this way, but also contains much more to wade through then say, Donald Tysons' Introductory book. But they are equal in the sense that they provide a gem or two, some really clear and practical insights, but have this other interpretive component that seems to send all true practitioners into prayer to the porcelain god (puke).

However, it is impossible to share work without an interpretive component (this is a fact, no?). That's the way that sharing of information works, always within an interpretive framework (even binary code is a framework of 1s and 0s). Meaning is always bound by context, but contexts themselves are boundless. I think the practice of taking as many real realizations from as many different traditions you can, and finding ways to express all of those various realizations through different interpretive frameworks, is one of the most noble practices one can engage in.

I think it is a simple consequence of humanities current state. We are inefficient and unsustainable. Hence, it stands to reason that all the traditions are the same way. This can be argued however, but it is as least a plausible line of logic.

If our interpretative framework and daily practices embrace increasing amounts of "end-game realizations" from the different traditions, this makes our practices more efficient and sustainable. In my opinion, practicing Enochian Magick in traditional Golden Dawn methods (themselves doing nothing more than integrating various traditions), or in the traditional Dee Operations (Heptarchical), requires the practitioner to retreat from society by sheer need of time and resources to complete the task.

I believe the time of the monk is very much over. I believe we should engage the world as much as possible, but not at the expense of deep personal realization. To balance these, especially in the emerging world, the information era, practices need to be sufficient and sustainable, just like human beings if we want to continue our upward charge of evolution. It is for these ends that I find a lot of value in
Frater Yechidah wrote:mixing of systems


It just seems to me that the magickal tradition itself, including enochian, is the result of a mixing of systems. I believe each system needs to be learned and practiced on its own before being "combined"...but I do not really like those terms, I do not feel they adequately describe the process. I don't believe the system looses anything in the process that is being pointed to. It retains all of its core realizations, it just becomes a component of something new, original, interpretive, and creative. I am trying to defend this idea as best I can not to change anyone's mind, but to be sure I understand what is meant by "mixing systems".

I really find it hard to believe that you separate your practices so precisely. I accept that it is true that you do. I have a lot of experience in Ki-Gong, Yoga, Qabalah, Meditation and Magick. I suppose my own personal experience is that they cross-train one another, and eventually become one practice. It is because of this experience that I find it very difficult to connect with what you are saying. But I believe it to be of course a very valid way of doing things...just really far from me.

Frater Yechidah wrote:I keep my martial arts and chi kung seperate from my Western magic, excercise, and energy work


What if you had been able to get all of the above from one practice or tradition. Wouldn't the time saved be better spent on, I don't know, going to outer space, making a couple million, feeding the hungry, etc. etc. etc.. I realize variety is the spice of life, but I find that currently in my practice, I want to save time so I can do more in the world. Unfold myself more. But still maintain the priceless benefits of time consuming disciplines such as magick, yoga, ki-gong, meditation and Magick. Its one thing to train them all one at a time, and carry the discipline with you through your life. I suppose I have a drive to offer human beings more efficient ways of gaining all these benefits because that is what I want for myself. LGDVL means "(to) grow" after all. Its not about laziness...its about taking on more responsibility. Thats my view of it anyway.

T
shit happens, flowers grow
User avatar
lgdvl73
Supreme Magus
 
Posts: 1643
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:36 am
Location: Gotham, Team America

Re: Enochian Yoga

Postby Frater Yechidah » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:50 pm

Ave Frater,

Firstly I'm going to make a few more comments directly on your first post.

lgdvl73 wrote:I am currently in the process of creating an 18 posture series of Yoga to be used in conjunction with the enochian calls.


It sounds intriguing. While I do like to keep systems that bear little resemblence to each other (Enochian and Yoga) seperate, I'd love to see what you come up with in this regard. Perhaps a few videos of the postures with the Calls would be nice? How do you plan to incorporate the 19th Call, or do you plan to leave that out completely?

lgdvl73 wrote:In other aspects of my work, I discovered an attribution system that relates the flow of energy through the 12 meridians of the human body, to the 12 signs of the zodiac. What I find synchronistic enough to engage in this creation of an 18 posture yoga, is that when you run my zodiac energy flow backwards, and attribute it to the last 12 calls, the common symbolic markers we see in the calls themselves line up. Specifically, call 7, the house of virgins is in fact Virgo. call 11, the eagle is in fact Scorpio. call 16, the house of justice is in fact Libra.


This is really interesting, and is info that can be utilised entirely seperately from the Yoga aspect. I'll have to look into how the other Calls relate to the signs of the Zodiac. Rowe's work is definitely invaluable here.

lgdvl73 wrote:Obviously, this is experimental in nature. But I am very curious about initial opinions. What I am proposing is an 18 posture Yoga that one would practice daily, which includes as a component to each respective posture, its attributed enochian call. The practice, when complete would take about 1 and a half hours, and consist of a complete purification system for the energy body of the magician. It does require that the calls be memorized and intoned with the eyes closed while in posture, while focusing on vibrating the call within the specific area of the energy body of the magician that the call is attributed to.


How have you attributed the Calls to different parts of the energy body?

lgdvl73 wrote:This then would be a preparatory practice and constant discipline in enochian work. The idea is to simultaneously teach the enochian language as well as get the magician purified, as well as prepare the energetic structures of the subtle body (chakras and meridians) for entering the Aethyrs.


Since this omits the Call of the Aethyrs, I can definitely see its potential for building the necessary energetic "vessel" within the magician for Aethyr and related work. However, I would argue that employing all 18 Calls together in the space of an hour and a half might actually overload the magician, weakening the vessel as apposed to strengthening it. Obviously you have some plans for the asanas to help in the intake and circulation of the energy, to better direct what is otherwise chaotic energy (a Call on its own with no direction invokes and releases energy chaotically).

lgdvl73 wrote:The 18 call 1 and half hour discipline (which integrates the exercises needed to achieve perfect health, as well as strengthens focus to the degree needed to effectively enter an Aethyr), would then be performed as a preparatory exercise before the meditation where the Aeythr is entered. Further, the suggested practice for doing this is on a 31 day retreat while the Lemonade Fast is observed throughout. Fasting, exercising, chanting, and meditating. Enochian Yoga would then be an Aesthetic form of Enochian Practice, focused on purification and realization.


I am, to be brutally honest, quite wary about how much "perfect health" you can get from this constant exposure to Enochian. Even Rowe was very clear on the idea of taking extended breaks from Enochian:

Learn to pace yourself. When first starting out, allow a day or two between Enochian invocations to absorb the results and "cool off". Later, when you get to the point where you need to accumulate power over several day’s worth of invocations, allow at least as many days off after the series as you spent in working. Take longer vacations from the work every few months to keep yourself grounded.


How is this perspective incorporated if the magician is performing this "Enochian Yoga" on, I assume, a daily basis? I know that excessive exposure to Enochian has caused health (and related) difficulties for me and others I know in the past, so will addings postures, etc. really alleviate that? I know it can possibly help in circulating energy, but what about the common "overkill" factor that occurs with Enochian - i.e. simply too much energy invoked (especially if all 18 Calls were to be used)?

lgdvl73 wrote:The way I am creating this is also worth noting. I have memorized all the calls at one time or another, but never all at the same time. I record the version of the call I am working on (Currently 3), and then make a hypnosis program using brain entrainment software. Every night I write the call into my subconscious mind, until during waking meditation, the posture spontaneously arises. Obviously, my predetermined cognitive notions about the attributions of the calls are going to heavily influence this arising, but my attributions of the calls were revealed in the appropriate manner. i.e. through the use of a Qabalistic Key which took 7 years of constant study to develop, as well as practical application of the enochian system over years combined with study of the published documents of users who have engaged the system practically. As each posture arises, I add it to my daily practice, so currently, I am practicing calls 1 and 2 everyday with their respective postures, and entraining call 3 every night, while memorizing and studying it during the day. The posture has already arisen in my practice, so as soon as I add call 3 to my automatically available list, I can move on to call 4.


Interesting process. I would have to at least see the postures to make more comments, as the process of delivery is only as interesting as the content it delivers.

lgdvl73 wrote:Yes, my life has become incredibly....unpredictable, but it feels divine. I am becoming physically healthier, sharper, blah blah blah. The effects of a pure working of the angelic currents are manifesting, and the ecstasy of wakefullness (even in sleep and dreams) has been slowly, and deliciously, increasing. It has been incredibly difficult, as a lot of habits and behavior patterns have had and in some cases still need to be adjusted...all in all pretty par for the course thus far.


Again, being physically healthier as a result of excessive exposure to Enochian appears to be a new one, and a reversal of old trends. I, and many other Enochian magicians, would be interesting in seeing how that carries on in the long term. Of course, general work with postures and chi kung will, of course, produce a) better health; b) more alertness; c) calmer disposition; d) more control over behaviour and habits; and so forth. How much of this relates to the Enochian will remain to be seen.

lgdvl73 wrote:Schueler's work gets slammed, always. Deservedly so in many cases. But the Schueler's are independent thinkers, and for that, should be respected on purely those terms. They have a complete system, workable within its own contexts, and completely undesirable (or so it seems) to the masses. They get flack on a different plane, but it is the same kind of flack Duquette gets. Anybody or any persons devoted to a practice will get their own results. Within each and all, are gems. Complete systems, are full of a lot of them. It may taste like cotton candy pop culture, or raving fantasies of steak and soda, or any other taste that may at first be unpleasant. But spitting it out is missing the real action. I think Scheuler's work is this way, but also contains much more to wade through then say, Donald Tysons' Introductory book. But they are equal in the sense that they provide a gem or two, some really clear and practical insights, but have this other interpretive component that seems to send all true practitioners into prayer to the porcelain god (puke).


Just because the Schueler's are "independent thinkers" doesn't mean their thoughts are any good. However, I find it interesting that you respond to defend them when I did not dismiss them earlier in this thread. I stated they have an "Enochian Yoga" book out there, so if you're thinking of doing something similar, that's obviously a place to start. Given your response, I'm assuming you've already read it (and the rest of their work). I have not read much of their work, and therefore cannot make my own personal judgement (although books like "Enochian Yoga" and "Enochian Physics" tend to have me running for the hills), but I trust the opinion of both my mentors in this magical system, my magical friends and colleagues (some unknown, some reknowned), and, of course, the highly respected practitioners in the field. None of them have much in the way of good to say about the Schueler's work, and, I suppose in the end they can't all be wrong.

I think there's a difference between interpreting Enochian material and actively creating new stuff (like Enochian Yoga). I understand that your defence of the Schuelers is partly in defence of yourself (as you will inevitably be compared to them over the title of this thread). Rowe interpreted the material. The Golden Dawn interpreted the material. The O.'.S.'.D.'.L.'., its members, and I did likewise. Rowe came up with a lot of new insights that most magicians respect, so it's not simply a matter of an unwillingness of modern magicians to accept new interpretations (new material has been delivered by Runar Karlsen, for example).

lgdvl73 wrote:However, it is impossible to share work without an interpretive component (this is a fact, no?). That's the way that sharing of information works, always within an interpretive framework (even binary code is a framework of 1s and 0s). Meaning is always bound by context, but contexts themselves are boundless. I think the practice of taking as many real realizations from as many different traditions you can, and finding ways to express all of those various realizations through different interpretive frameworks, is one of the most noble practices one can engage in.


What do you mean by "contexts [...] are boundless"? Do you mean to say that we can actively insert the material into new contexts in order to derive the meaning we desire? The context is there by default - we do not create the context ourselves. Interpretation isn't license to come up with anything you want. You can't just force Enochian through the lense of interpretation and come up with Enochian Interior Design or Enochian Airforce Training.

lgdvl73 wrote:I think it is a simple consequence of humanities current state. We are inefficient and unsustainable. Hence, it stands to reason that all the traditions are the same way. This can be argued however, but it is as least a plausible line of logic.


I disagree. Many humans are both efficient and sustainable. Many of the great martial arts have been developed by such people, for example, and their systems are far from ineffecient and unsustainable. The GD system is also a good example of something that is efficient and sustainable (being the bedrock of much tradition since). Not all systems belong to the same basket. To suggest that would, by default, relegate your own system to the same basket, as it implies that you, by being human, can never escape the net of inefficiency and unsustainability, and that your attempt to take "inefficient and unsustainable" systems and traditions and combine them into an efficient and sustainable one is both futile and contradictory to your logic.

lgdvl73 wrote:If our interpretative framework and daily practices embrace increasing amounts of "end-game realizations" from the different traditions, this makes our practices more efficient and sustainable. In my opinion, practicing Enochian Magick in traditional Golden Dawn methods (themselves doing nothing more than integrating various traditions), or in the traditional Dee Operations (Heptarchical), requires the practitioner to retreat from society by sheer need of time and resources to complete the task.


So, rather than learning one system, learning 10 is more efficient? You cannot simply tag on Eastern concepts to Western ones and assume the Western magician will understand; he or she first has to learn the Eastern concepts. It is, therefore, more work and less efficient. Why do we, for example, always compare the Sephiroth to the Eastern chakras, especially when so few of us have a proper understanding of the chakras in their original context and meaning (as we do likewise with our diluted view of karma)? Why do we go and learn a whole other system to try to explain our own? Is there not enough in our own systems to explain themselves? I think having our own systems explain our own concepts is much more efficient than having another system do it.

Practicing Enochian in GD or Dee methods does not require a retreat from society. Indeed, it could be argued that the practice you suggest of Enochian Yoga would require more of that, and that's on top of the traditional uses of the system (i.e. working with the various angels of the Great Table, etc.).

lgdvl73 wrote:It just seems to me that the magickal tradition itself, including enochian, is the result of a mixing of systems. I believe each system needs to be learned and practiced on its own before being "combined"...but I do not really like those terms, I do not feel they adequately describe the process. I don't believe the system looses anything in the process that is being pointed to. It retains all of its core realizations, it just becomes a component of something new, original, interpretive, and creative. I am trying to defend this idea as best I can not to change anyone's mind, but to be sure I understand what is meant by "mixing systems".


There's a huge difference between mixing Enochian with the Qabalah as opposed to Yoga. Firstly, there are genuine reasons why we might consider mixing Enochian and the Qabalah: 1) Dee was well versed in the Qabalah, and his magical background was the bedrock of the delivery of the system, and why, indeed he was chosen to receive the system; 2) there are Qabalistic teachings (and Gnostic ones, for that matter) contained in the system - the Sigillum Dei Aemeth is based on earlier Qabalistic material, for example, and the Severe and Merciful aspects of the Solar Kings are strikingly obvious Qabalistic concepts in practice; 3) the angels continue to use Qabalistic terminology to elucidate their system. This doesn't mean there's a 1-to-1 relation of Qabalistic teaching with Enochian teaching, but there's definitely more reason to mix them than there is Eastern systems.

lgdvl73 wrote:I really find it hard to believe that you separate your practices so precisely. I accept that it is true that you do. I have a lot of experience in Ki-Gong, Yoga, Qabalah, Meditation and Magick. I suppose my own personal experience is that they cross-train one another, and eventually become one practice. It is because of this experience that I find it very difficult to connect with what you are saying. But I believe it to be of course a very valid way of doing things...just really far from me.


There is always a blending of all that we know. We learn something in martial arts and apply it to other aspects of our life, for example. My martial arts and chi kung work has, for example, influenced my posture and performance of ritual magic. However, I don't actively unite the two. I don't do a sword form in the middle of an Enochian or Qabalistic ritual, nor do I assume a martial posture while performing an invocation or prayer. Chi kung, of course, can be brought more readily into ritual to raise and circulate energy, but we also have Western methods to do so. I might, if desireable, perform some Chi Kung work before or after a ceremony. I do not mix them however, and I try to avoid mixing concepts and terminology, which merely muddies things, especially when trying to explain them to other people.

lgdvl73 wrote:What if you had been able to get all of the above from one practice or tradition. Wouldn't the time saved be better spent on, I don't know, going to outer space, making a couple million, feeding the hungry, etc. etc. etc.. I realize variety is the spice of life, but I find that currently in my practice, I want to save time so I can do more in the world. Unfold myself more. But still maintain the priceless benefits of time consuming disciplines such as magick, yoga, ki-gong, meditation and Magick. Its one thing to train them all one at a time, and carry the discipline with you through your life. I suppose I have a drive to offer human beings more efficient ways of gaining all these benefits because that is what I want for myself. LGDVL means "(to) grow" after all. Its not about laziness...its about taking on more responsibility. Thats my view of it anyway.


I prefer being able to use Qabalah when I want, Enochian when I want, martial arts when I want, chi kung when I want, my cooker when I want, and my toilet when I want. I don't want them all together for a number of reasons (not least of all the hygeine issues of your cooker and toilet being "as one"). One of these reasons is that uniting them tends to dilute them. GD Enochian does this. It's remarkably powerful, yes, but the forcing of it into the framework of GD work does mean we get less of the "pure" system (noting that I am far from a Dee purist, being both a GD and OSDL magician). Many people, for example, combine Tai Chi Chuan in their general fitness classes, and this results in it being used as an excercise, a dance, as opposed to an actual martial art. The same applies for Yoga. You also have to learn all those systems you're trying to unify (and I'd argue that you're probably not getting all there is to get from them). I also like diversity. I like being able to switch from one to the other, and I like being able to not do ritual at times and still do martial arts or chi kung. It is vital to ground yourself and actively leave the temple from time to time. As you said, "the time of the monk is very much over".

LLLSHJ,
Yechidah.
User avatar
Frater Yechidah
Supreme Inner Guard
Supreme Inner Guard
 
Posts: 663
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Enochian Yoga

Postby lgdvl73 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:52 pm

Frater Yechidah wrote:Perhaps a few videos of the postures with the Calls would be nice? How do you plan to incorporate the 19th Call, or do you plan to leave that out completely?


This is definitely in the works. The 19th call is (as you know) used to open up the Aethyrs, it is used in specific for that operation in this case as well. In my first post, I wrote:
lgdvl73 wrote:The 18 call 1 and half hour discipline (which integrates the exercises needed to achieve perfect health, as well as strengthens focus to the degree needed to effectively enter an Aethyr), would then be performed as a preparatory exercise before the meditation where the Aeythr is entered. Further, the suggested practice for doing this is on a 31 day retreat while the Lemonade Fast is observed throughout. Fasting, exercising, chanting, and meditating. Enochian Yoga would then be an Aesthetic form of Enochian Practice, focused on purification and realization.


To clarify, the 19th call is used to open the 30 Aethyrs over a 31 day purification fast and retreat.

EDIT 1/12/12: Leitch's book came out in the meantime, and straightened me out with regards to Gebofal. The 31 Day Purification actually turned into a physical regimen combined with Heptarchic Evocation and an ascent of Gebofal.

Effectively, the formula is similar to the Abramelin formula. There is a process of purification and increasing intensity of prayer that culminates in the realization that that particular operation is meant to make manifest. This is also the formula Crowley used when approaching the Aethyrs. I feel branding it as a "formula of initiation" carries with it a lot of baggage, but is still a good laymen description of what opening and entering the Aethyrs "actually is or does".

Frater Yechidah wrote:How have you attributed the Calls to different parts of the energy body?


Yes. Example, call 1 and call 2 comprise the polarity of the Conception and the Governor Meridians. These are the 2 extraordinary (not part of the common 12) meridians that run along the center of your bodies anterior and posterior respectively. The first two calls, then, purify and strengthen these extraordinary vessels, and are accompanied with a posture a breathing practice designed to facilitate this same goal based on the principles of Ki-Gong and Eastern Medicine.

Most energy practices focus initially on the 2nd chakra, and the circulation through this circle of breath. The Conception meridian controls all of the yin meridians and balances yin in the entire body. The governor meridian controls all the yang meridians and balances the yang energy in our body. In reading Rowe's published interpretations of call 1 and 2, this makes a whole heck of a lot sense. Not to mention my own conclusions based on my own work.

Having the experience you have, it should be no problem for you to find a posture of your own that you know stimulates these aspects of the energy body in yourself. Try it, and chant or sing or speak the calls as your stimulate these meridians. The subjective results have been thus far astounding to me and I would be curious if you experience something similar.

Frater Yechidah wrote:can definitely see its potential for building the necessary energetic "vessel" within the magician for Aethyr and related work. However, I would argue that employing all 18 Calls together in the space of an hour and a half might actually overload the magician, weakening the vessel as apposed to strengthening it. Obviously you have some plans for the asanas to help in the intake and circulation of the energy, to better direct what is otherwise chaotic energy (a Call on its own with no direction invokes and releases energy chaotically).


Frater Yechidah wrote:I am, to be brutally honest, quite wary about how much "perfect health" you can get from this constant exposure to Enochian. Even Rowe was very clear on the idea of taking extended breaks from Enochian:


Frater Yechidah wrote:How is this perspective incorporated if the magician is performing this "Enochian Yoga" on, I assume, a daily basis? I know that excessive exposure to Enochian has caused health (and related) difficulties for me and others I know in the past, so will addings postures, etc. really alleviate that? I know it can possibly help in circulating energy, but what about the common "overkill" factor that occurs with Enochian - i.e. simply too much energy invoked (especially if all 18 Calls were to be used)?


Amen brother on all of this! These concerns and actual objective facts the enochian community is well aware of is literally what I am seeking to address through this experiment. I have experienced enochian in exactly the same way. It has left my ears smoking for sometimes months at a time. My experience in enochian in terms of its "chaos" and tendency to bring ill health if overdone (and not just physical ailments of course) is absolutely congruent with the picture you paint here. This is the problem I have tasked myself with solving.

Frater Yechidah wrote:Again, being physically healthier as a result of excessive exposure to Enochian appears to be a new one, and a reversal of old trends. I, and many other Enochian magicians, would be interesting in seeing how that carries on in the long term. Of course, general work with postures and chi kung will, of course, produce a) better health; b) more alertness; c) calmer disposition; d) more control over behaviour and habits; and so forth. How much of this relates to the Enochian will remain to be seen.


Indeed, I am not claiming anything here but initial results. Your concerns echo my own, but I also feel qualified in the necessary fields to engage in this working. This is definitely about bringing to bear the benefits of ki-gong into the process of enochian "initiation" or contemplative devotion or alchemical transmutation, or whatever you want to call it.

Frater Yechidah wrote:I stated they have an "Enochian Yoga" book out there, so if you're thinking of doing something similar, that's obviously a place to start.


PUKE! Everyone knows how Enochian Magicians feel about the Schueler's....and bringing them up in the context of someone else's work is definitely taking the piss out of them a little. But I still remain defensive of their success. They have published a workable system of Enochian...something I believe we can both say we want to do but haven't. I dont think it matters how magicians perceive the Schueler's, they're gettin it done better than I am, so I feel I should exercise certain amounts of respect even though I am in full agreement with the consensus reality of enochian magicians in terms of judging the quality of the scheuler's work.

Frater Yechidah wrote:None of them have much in the way of good to say about the Schueler's work, and, I suppose in the end they can't all be wrong.


Amen brother! They AIN't wrong!

Frater Yechidah wrote:What do you mean by "contexts [...] are boundless"?


You can always outcontext a duality. Anytime a duality (two or more points of view) occurs, you can always find resolution in a "deeper and wider" context. And this goes on indefinitely and infinitely. There is always a "Meta" to your current objective state awareness, no matter how multi-perspectival and how illuminated it becomes. You can always out-context current meaning, indefinitely. Psychologists maintain that the realization of this truth is what brings about the Existential Crisis. It is also known as its name when referring to the common deconstructionalist post-modern stage of consciousness development of 'performative contradiction".

That is what I meant anyway by the statement that contexts are boundless.

Frater Yechidah wrote:Do you mean to say that we can actively insert the material into new contexts in order to derive the meaning we desire?


Hell no. You're taking the piss out of me again! That would be an amateur move. I mean that, in the final analysis, decisions need to be made in order to move forward and grow. And embracing as many perspectives as you can is the empirically demonstrable evidence that higher structure potentials of human consciousness are at work. That means deriving choice and relative truth from an understanding of as many perspectives as current cognitive ability posesses, and understanding how all perspectives work together in a network logic that expresses the unspeakable nature of "actual real reality". This is precisely how Qabalah teaches realizations of sephiroth and paths. You learn a bunch of perspectives on the things, and them string them all together to a real experience of what is being pointed to.

I think the process when interpreting the material is one of getting the realizations that the system has to offer, by following the original injunctions of the system itself. ONCE THIS REALIZATION IS ATTAINED, the system is then studied and modified from the realized perspective, attained firstly through an understanding of the system through its normal means. That is much different in both time, effort and discipline than simply inserting material into new contexts. The material is what it is as it is, and none other than it is. This isn't fantasy role-playing.

Frater Yechidah wrote:The context is there by default - we do not create the context ourselves.


Agreed. But the realizations and experiences confronted through the practice of enochian magick in its original context, lead to a state of mind and other supra-normal experiences that completely outcontext the original material. This is exactly the same as saying that the Seniors tell you how to work the system. I think you are becoming familiar with my method of experiencing the states of consciousness described in enochian, rather than just visiting them objectively in astral vision through scrying the table. I do not believe there is any essential difference in the results attained, just different perspectives of inquiry into the same types of events.

Frater Yechidah wrote:I disagree. Many humans are both efficient and sustainable.


Amen brother! I do not disagree. My quote was as follows:

Frater Yechidah wrote:lgdvl73 wrote:I think it is a simple consequence of humanities current state. We are inefficient and unsustainable. Hence, it stands to reason that all the traditions are the same way. This can be argued however, but it is as least a plausible line of logic.


Humanities current state clearly points to a consensus average of all humans. And if you take one look at the social-economic-cultural tide right now, I find it very difficult that one would call it anything but inefficient and unsustainable. Individual systems absolutely exist, but my position is that they are too outdated to retain the title "efficient". Efficiency is what is right now and in the moment. Old systems cannot not possibly be as efficient is possible simply because "Spirit" itself has grown in fullness, so the expression of a magickal realization system such as the GD for example, is full in terms of Spirit in the late 1800's. Spirits potential to express itself has increased exponentially for over 100 years since the time of the GD.

I believe these systems are FUNDAMENTAL to any new emergent system. And this is your second basic, totally valuable and viable, criticism you are offering to this work. Which is that one waters down the systems when you combine them.

Frater Yechidah wrote:The GD system is also a good example of something that is efficient and sustainable (being the bedrock of much tradition since). Not all systems belong to the same basket. To suggest that would, by default, relegate your own system to the same basket, as it implies that you, by being human, can never escape the net of inefficiency and unsustainability, and that your attempt to take "inefficient and unsustainable" systems and traditions and combine them into an efficient and sustainable one is both futile and contradictory to your logic.


What you are suggesting as my logic is indeed amateurish. But you misunderstand me. I never said humans cannot escape some mythical "net of efficiency and unsustainability". But it is definitely a process that does not end. The original GD is gone. The material lives on, and many organizations are legitimate enough to be considered true lineage holders of the Golden Dawn current. This does not imply what I mean by sustainability.

Sustainability in this case is being able to practice the 18 calls in an hour and a half, and have completely integrated the energies of those calls so fluently and perfectly, that it simply is the principles of circulation on your body. Unsustainability is exactly what all enochian magicians encounter when they try to do Enochian as a consistent practice for say, 100 days, or more. Rowe is right in this sense. But whats wrong with investigating ways in which this practice can be maintained. This creates sustainability in practice, which is empirically demonstrated to be the most efficient means of energy use. Everything that is 100 years or more older is not as efficient or as sustainable as it could be. What is laid down in these antique systems is fundamental to the existence of any new emergent and more embracing systems of magick, growth, attainment, spirituality, voodoo, or what have you.

Frater Yechidah wrote:So, rather than learning one system, learning 10 is more efficient? You cannot simply tag on Eastern concepts to Western ones and assume the Western magician will understand; he or she first has to learn the Eastern concepts. It is, therefore, more work and less efficient. Why do we, for example, always compare the Sephiroth to the Eastern chakras, especially when so few of us have a proper understanding of the chakras in their original context and meaning (as we do likewise with our diluted view of karma)? Why do we go and learn a whole other system to try to explain our own? Is there not enough in our own systems to explain themselves? I think having our own systems explain our own concepts is much more efficient than having another system do it.


Learning 10 systems allows a system to be creatively manifested which would be more efficient in its use. My work is openly about pushing the envelope and trying to move things forward. I think their is always a better way, and in magick, in think there is a much better way. Odds (empirically) are that I am just a whack and have no idea what I'm talking about, but I none the less (due to the nature of magick providing these details in the form of realitous synchronicitus), I believe this operation will ultimately result in a greater good for practitioners who want to get more than one thing done at a time. And NOT water down the fundamental realizations of the individual system. This is the natural process and natural way of evolution.

Again, this is not amateur work, and I do not appreciate the suggestion that simply tagging on eastern concepts to western ones is what is going on here. Who doesn't have a proper understanding of the chakra's in their original context and meaning (and by this do you mean "asian", "indian", vedantic, etc...because personally, I am familiar with those and more in terms of contextual and cultural interpretations of the chakras)?

No one is suggesting that we have the concepts of one system explain the concepts in another, something I am also staunchly against. I seem to remember a conversation we had when I took just this position saying that using the enochian system and cacodaemons in particular to address issues of obsession in the magician was preferable to getting outside help because of just the point you are making....letting our own systems explain its own concepts. Again, what is going on here is not a breach of this internal systematic understanding. It is taking the fundamental principles of as many systems as are available (made available through real discipline and mastery), and finding a way to practice in which they can all cross-train and support eachother, without diluting their principles and realizations. You are of the belief it seems that this can't be done, or perhaps have zero faith that I may have something to offer in terms of that end. It is none the less the reason I am doing this operation and investigation. To find a way to integrate and maximize and increase the results of all truths thus integrated.

They all have a piece of the truth, and if the system being practices is such that it can embrace many forms of the truth in one single form of expression, then it is efficient and as sustainable as possible. Anything less then this implies less than perfect. It is not about whether or not perfect is possible or even desirable. but a constant discipline in finding the the relative truth in this moments expression through the practice of the system.

Frater Yechidah wrote:Practicing Enochian in GD or Dee methods does not require a retreat from society. Indeed, it could be argued that the practice you suggest of Enochian Yoga would require more of that, and that's on top of the traditional uses of the system (i.e. working with the various angels of the Great Table, etc.).


Indeed I may have exaggerated, magickal practice can be made to be very time affordable. The Practice I suggest requires 1 and a half hours, which would cover both the needs of the magician in terms of enochian practice, physical health, meditation, and other benefits...that is if it works (which you seem to think it will kill me or some sensational thing). I believe the results if effective will more than harmonize the benefits of many diverse modes of practice.

The heavens (Aethyrs) would require a retreat from society, but a small retirement is very healthy I believe in many cases. This is not contradictory to the idea that the time of the monk is over. But a month of contemplation has been shown empirically to increase all kinds of things like healthy brain function, emotional satisfaction, piece of mind. And I believe effectively and safely being able to enter the 30 Aethyrs in as many days would be a huge accomplishment in efficiency.

The yoga is in preparation of this retreat.

Frater Yechidah wrote:There's a huge difference between mixing Enochian with the Qabalah as opposed to Yoga. Firstly, there are genuine reasons why we might consider mixing Enochian and the Qabalah: 1) Dee was well versed in the Qabalah, and his magical background was the bedrock of the delivery of the system, and why, indeed he was chosen to receive the system; 2) there are Qabalistic teachings (and Gnostic ones, for that matter) contained in the system - the Sigillum Dei Aemeth is based on earlier Qabalistic material, for example, and the Severe and Merciful aspects of the Solar Kings are strikingly obvious Qabalistic concepts in practice; 3) the angels continue to use Qabalistic terminology to elucidate their system. This doesn't mean there's a 1-to-1 relation of Qabalistic teaching with Enochian teaching, but there's definitely more reason to mix them than there is Eastern systems.


Amen again brother! The differences between applying Qabalah to Enochian and applying Chakras, and Vedantic thought, and Buddhism, and Zen and Tantra, and Eastern Medicine, etc. to Enochian are HUGELY different.

What is Qabalah if it is not in part an interpretive key. My understanding of Qabalah, is that it maintains that all systems can be understood by its means. I spent 7 years discovering a coherent and practically effective method for interpreting the contemplative and energy sciences and martial arts, and ki-gong, and meditation with Qabalah. Its effective and works like the traditional qabalah as an interpretive framework, and the old formulas of traditional qabalah are maintained. This personal qabalistic key, is what I am using to approach Enochian this time around. It allows the circulation of mind (called the noosphere), which Qabalists experience through attribution and correspondence memorization and practical magick, based on the principles of energy circulation in the body (in the biosphere) as empirically demonstrated by the ancient tradition of eastern medicinal theory. Mind and body then operate based on the same energetic formula. This creates harmonious circulation, and mind/body integration into the development of a higher faculty consistent with typical results in both Yoga and Magick.

This is not mixing or combining and I detest your use of those terms in describing what is going on here. (I dont detest you, your words just taste like venom) I understand these remarks however, and I agree with their sentiment. But I am defending myself because in my opinion, you are thinking this is somehow the work of a child, which it is not. Because only an amateur would make the mistakes you are bringing up here...I know, because I have made them all!

Frater Yechidah wrote:One of these reasons is that uniting them tends to dilute them. GD Enochian does this. It's remarkably powerful, yes, but the forcing of it into the framework of GD work does mean we get less of the "pure" system (noting that I am far from a Dee purist, being both a GD and OSDL magician). Many people, for example, combine Tai Chi Chuan in their general fitness classes, and this results in it being used as an excercise, a dance, as opposed to an actual martial art. The same applies for Yoga. You also have to learn all those systems you're trying to unify (and I'd argue that you're probably not getting all there is to get from them).


To think one has ever gotten everything from a system is to be thinking wrongly. Again you insult me. You've basically accused me here of somehow not being disciplined in the forms of practice I AM ACTUALLY ENGAGING IN EVERYDAY. That includes Enochian Magick both contemplative and ritual, meditation, yoga, ki-gong, and some other strength training exercises. I spend 2 and a half to four hours in my temple everyday, depending on how much sleep I need, and what other commitments I have. I'm no saint, but seriously, you are better than to question my discipline, commitment, sincerity,and cognitive understanding of the materials I work with.

Frater Yechidah wrote:It is vital to ground yourself and actively leave the temple from time to time.


Absolutely, this work for me is about maintaining this engagement with the real world. I am a musician involved in multiple projects, a student in college, a husband in a modern NYC relationship (this means drinking and dining, which takes a lot of energy, as well as having to make temple time for partner practice), a working healer, and a paid private teacher. I still make the temple time I need, but it is becoming increasingly limited because of life responsibilities. I refuse to sacrifice certain practices that require privacy. Hence, my work trying to find new levels of integration.

In general, I agree whole-heatedly with most of what you are saying. I do take offense however at the seemingly narrow-minded approach to your evaluation. I connect and feel why you would ask these questions and make these points....and I will live or die by my results when it is done. (I have about 7 months left in my scheduled retirement), but I do not feel I am making the mistakes you are pointing out.

T
Last edited by lgdvl73 on Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
shit happens, flowers grow
User avatar
lgdvl73
Supreme Magus
 
Posts: 1643
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:36 am
Location: Gotham, Team America

Re: Enochian Yoga

Postby lgdvl73 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:12 pm

I recently came across this again ... its been years. This is the result of the above initial inspirations:

Childao Caosgo : Diamond of the Earth

The title is a play on 777, and also points to the new transmutation as being a process of compression, of pressure over time, of turning Coal to Diamond. As an Aries, Diamond is significant. The Diamond Way is the Ram's way, and is the Manifestation of Supermind.

T
shit happens, flowers grow
User avatar
lgdvl73
Supreme Magus
 
Posts: 1643
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:36 am
Location: Gotham, Team America

Re: Enochian Yoga

Postby lgdvl73 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:50 pm

These documents are also the final products of a lot of the jargon I was using above. These were the Wizard in Harlem dayz!!

(Scribd documents are complete, so only buy them if you want to donate)

Noospheric Operating System 31

Stargrams, Elements, & Meridians

IPM Table

and my blog from those days -

The Wizard in Harlem
shit happens, flowers grow
User avatar
lgdvl73
Supreme Magus
 
Posts: 1643
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:36 am
Location: Gotham, Team America

Re: Enochian Yoga

Postby Saggg » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:49 am

lgdvl73 wrote:These documents are also the final products of a lot of the jargon I was using above. These were the Wizard in Harlem dayz!!

(Scribd documents are complete, so only buy them if you want to donate)

Noospheric Operating System 31

Stargrams, Elements, & Meridians

IPM Table

and my blog from those days -

The Wizard in Harlem




:Thank You
Mojuba maferefun Iya mi Osun ati mi baba, mojuba mope baba mi Esu! Ki kan masse alejos ati abures mi!
User avatar
Saggg
Magician
 
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:17 pm

Re: Enochian Yoga

Postby Soror Lucia Megha » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:48 pm

This sounds like a really interesting experiment, as a yoga teacher also interested in Enochian magick, this is something I would defiantly want to take as swing out.
User avatar
Soror Lucia Megha
Adept
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:17 pm

Re: Enochian Yoga

Postby lgdvl73 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:57 pm

Check out the documents, and ask any questions you have here, I'll be happy to let you know what I found out through the work.

Inevitably, what I discovered is that it was not the Yoga in the traditional 'Hatha' sense that made it effective, but rather devising more and more subtle ways of stimulating the energy flows while chanting the calls. If you do any Reiki or healing work, just imagine charging the Meridian with the energy of the call, like singing a lullaby to your body.

The Pranic energy we see in Yoga, I usually break down as dealing with the chakra system/planetary energy, and the extraordinary meridians of eastern medicine/elemental energies. Whereas the Chi/Ki energy more germane to martial arts also stimulated the elemental/extraordinary meridians, its action takes place in the 12 Regular Meridians as well.

The documents above explain the theory, so if you would like to know more I would suggest reading through them and asking about any things that I didn't make clear. But, you know how it goes, practice and internalization are the keys to making it work.

T
shit happens, flowers grow
User avatar
lgdvl73
Supreme Magus
 
Posts: 1643
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:36 am
Location: Gotham, Team America


Return to Enochian Studies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Google [Bot] and 1 guest

Follow @evocationmagic