dangers for people not in the ritual

[Asterion]

When I get the occasional ass kicking for being sloppy, I deserve and accept it.

That should be part of our secret magicians sect oath.
Ops, the first rule of our secret magicians sect is not speaking about the secret magicians sect.
I ll be on toilet duty till the next Aeon.

[Avathar behemoth]

girasol,
evocations are not supposed to be done on a whim. You must regard it as something sacred, prapare fon months for it and make sure all is in the right place. When you treat evoking each of these spirits like the most important job interview of your career or meeting the Pope, there is little chance you might leave anything out.

Women? The grimoires are written by Christian priests, who were supposed to be chaste. It s obvious why the interdiction is made. I believe that the reverse would apply to women, no men.

i disagree, women were supposed not to be present because the christian priests thought of them as being "base" and unclean especially during menstruation. i do think you can safely have a mixed gender team. though i would avoid working during menstruation, but the female forum members are far more qualified to comment on that than me.
and it would be good to say WHY evocation should be treated as something really important. because if it is in your mind...the most important thing ever, you will charge far more than if you do it casually! in my experience wanting something, mulling over it for days, how and what youre going to make your charge forms a lot of the contact and can even result in the spirit coming to you before the ritual.

[Asterion]

i disagree, women were supposed not to be present because the christian priests thought of them as being "base" and unclean especially during menstruation.

Very true, as well. Men are considered impure during and after pollution (ejaculation), while women during (and a bit after) menstruation. Thing is women have no choice, while men do. If the evocation falls withing the women's menstruation period, she has no choice but to forfeit the process. I have no idea, as I am not a woman, I can only speculate.
But the general view in the medieval times was tabu when it came to women's involvement in higher mysteries, a view i do not personally share.

[girasol]

Menstrual taboos are also important in Santeria and Palo, which I practice, though not due so much to "uncleanness" as the fact that the deities are energized and fed by blood. One also shouldn't work them if bleeding from a recent cut on the hand, etc. I respect that. A purification bath after the end of the menstrual cycle is appropriate, before beginning any ritual work.

[Avathar behemoth]

yeah i think its considdered a no no in many traditions...
once i read an astrology article on fixed stars and it said that menstruation was linked to algol, the demon star (al ghool in arabic?) wich was supposed to have a destructive energy. destructive as in destroying in order to rebuild, very hard to harmoniously vibrate to. linked to various cults like the dionysian extacy cult for instance.

[girasol]

yeah i think its considdered a no no in many traditions...
once i read an astrology article on fixed stars and it said that menstruation was linked to algol, the demon star (al ghool in arabic?) wich was supposed to have a destructive energy. destructive as in destroying in order to rebuild, very hard to harmoniously vibrate to. linked to various cults like the dionysian extacy cult for instance.

It seems to be taboo in "solar" traditions in particular. I do find it is a waning kind of energy, so not right for doing work that is about creating or birthing or building energy. Might be ideal for some other kinds of work where one wants a waning energy, though.

[Asterion]

Cleanliness and uncleanliness in ritual magic is indee very interesting subject, one that we might tackle on it's own. Let's stay focused, people. Company in the circle. Good stories, bad stories?

By the way, there is a number of people that is ok to bring. Some say 5 or 3 people is ok, but 2 or 4 is bad news. Others have it the other way around. The famous Colosseum evocation of Cellino Cellini might be related to this fact. Have to research that.

[girasol]

It occurs to me there is a pretty good equivalent of "dangers for people not in the ritual" in Santeria. One ritual that is often fairly public is the celebratory drumming which is often done for a person's initiation birthday each year. There's a big altar set up and friends and acquaintances are invited to sing and dance. It's not unusual for friends-of-friends or such to show up, and some number of people attending will not be initiated (yet) or might be so and so's cousin visiting from Peoria who is just curious.

The drumming and singing is basically an intensive invocation, and it is expected the orishas (deities) might respond by dropping in to visit, and possessing some of the priests.

It is not unknown for some of the "general audience" to get possessed, briefly, also. It's considered dangerous, because the mind and body have not been prepared for the energy of the orisha to enter it like that, so if that happens the person is dragged out of the room and the orisha is sent away.

Considering the intensity of the invocations I'm a little surprised how little this seems to happen. I saw it perhaps a few times a year, when I was going to one of these drummings most weekends. It's considered a sign the orisha is interested in you, and you should get thee to a diviner and figure out what you need to do for it.

[Bluefirephoenix]

The nordic view of men are not allowed to practice magic at all and even the god Odin had to disguise himself as a woman to learn their secret art shows that there are significant differences in cultural views.

I can say practically speaking it's a hard time to raise energy needed for the evocation and at least when your feeling crappy and tired it's not the best time. Others find they have more power at that time. There are significant power and receptive fluctuations during the cycle.

I'm working on experimenting with the natural cycles to see if perhaps that has more influence than actual astrological lunar cycles do. Both cycles are related and we tend to follow lunar patterns. I think it's possible that women have to follow their own cycle above and beyond the astrological. I think the magical issues we face are very different.

[girasol]

moderators - is it possible to move the several posts here about menstrual issues to a new thread? we got sidetracked, but it's an interesting and worthy topic.