4 limbs 4 elements?

[MMA_Magus]

Hey fellow magi,
I have been struggling to put a correspondence of the 4 elements to each limb of my body, and was hoping to find some suggestions here. I have a few ideas already, tell me what you think:
1. Mather's pentagram which would equal right arm air, left arm water, right leg earth, left leg fire.
-This feels a little off to me though. I would think fire being creative and dominate should be an arm (probably right arm.)
2. The Enochian Watchtowers linked to the zodiac as described by Aaron Leitch (kheph777.tripod.com/art_discourse.html)
-Right Arm Fire, Left Arm Earth, Right Leg Water, Left Leg Air... seems good, but I think air should be an arm instead of a leg since it is an active (creative) force
3. Tree of Life = Right Arm Chesed Air, Left Arm Geburah Fire, Right Leg Netzach Earth?, Left Leg Hod Water
4. My own ideas Right Arm Fire (dominate arm, used for holding weapons/tools)
Left Arm Air (light/quick i.e. boxing jab, left hand path airy spirits fly above the abyss)
Right Leg Earth (solid balance, dominate leg, opposite of air left arm)
Left Leg Water (passive leg, opposite of fire right arm)
I remember hearing somewhere that in African Traditions the arms are believed to be creative forces, and the legs destructive.

Please share your thoughts on these different correspondences, Thanks!

[raum215]

four elements and four limbs presents a problem for direct correlation. For one, what is the difference between say, the left leg and the right leg. Well, for one, the femorial artery, right? What is to say the dominant arm for everyone is the same - actually nothing. What about the fact that each hand and foot (typically) has five extensions? the idea of static correspondence is not really concrete.

The interrelation of appendages much also be considered. If I were you, I'd consider the possibility of having several "modalities" for these that you can switch between. Most martial arts have flexible assumptions like this, switching from one style to another.

Tiger is not wrong, but it has a different set of traits than Mantis - both of which have their strengths and weaknesses.

For anatomy and elements, the vedic approach, the taoist approach, and the Qablalistic approach(es), which do not agree, are all VERY useful, in their own regards.

[MMA_Magus]

Thanks for your response raum215, what you said does ring very true. I spend a lot of time trying to connect various systems in order to find some "deeper" hidden meaning, I guess its a desire I have to build one all encompassing system. I follow the information paradigm more or less, and it is true one man's symbol system is not another's. I really liked the comparison of various styles of kung fu you made; each with their own inherent strengths and weaknesses.

The reason for this thread in the first place is I am very involved in martial arts, and actively compete. I feel that with my heavy emphases on competition I have missed out on a lot of spirituality that I could be experiencing through my art. I am creating my own system of martial arts geared towards "enlightenment" for lack of a better term, maybe illumination is a better one? In the end maybe my efforts should be geared toward creating several systems each with their own particular function and place.

[raum215]

If I may suggest. I would study Hsing Yi, Ba Gua Zhang, and Tai Chi,.. in that order.

Enochian does not really start out, or in my opinion, work effectively for its own claims as the golden dawn represented it.

The "Elemental" tablets in Enochian do exist, but they are part of the Tabula Collecta, and Liber Tertius is explicit in that point. The tables called elemental in the GD system, are not elemental. Each has the exact same powers in every single subangle. The only difference is the tablets are in the fourfold division of the earth, in respect of the poles - this ties them to seasons, or to geographic locations, or both.


In the lower left subangle of each tablet, there is the understanding of all the elemental information and creatures for that division. One line each for Air, Water, Earth, and Fire. The angels say they are easy to call, and in practice they are very easy to call, indeed. The system demands you have a ring (Michael says "WIthout this, thou shalt do nothing."), it is a very special one, and I have such a ring. I mention this because I find that in general the claims of the system are quite faithful to my experience of it - some people do not think so - and many do not have, or have not properly understood the ring.

I find this, and the lamen to be essential to my Enochian work - both of which came THROUGH my enochian work.
-------

Back to martial arts. http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=595

Agrippa had a sword style that might be of use to you - but it principally relied upon geometry - then again so does Magick. I have an informal fighting style, that uses a book. I developed it as a child, and in connection with my first big request. At the time i had about 6 weeks of american karate, at the boy's club. Then I was often bullied, and my request was made. The result is for me, the book is a great weapon, and my improvisation with it as a weapon is very effective. It feels *guided.*

Anyone who understands improvisational weaponry can see how a book would be a suitable weapon, and I can rationalize it now - but the effect was I got it at a very young age through an evocation. I have defended my self on the streets of Oakland with a book, even though I had a knife in my jacket. Seriously, books kick ass in more ways than one.

Therefore, it may be of use for you to seek a spirit to learn or request a "style" or maybe just an "understanding" from.

I employ martial arts *very* occasionally these days - but to be honest, I find they are in my opinion, kind of like cooking from a cook-book. i have no need to when I can eyeball all my measurements and have so much experience that my training is not complete enough to represent my true combat capacity. I have, however, trained in the military and alot of that is so informal it just kind of happens.

[MMA_Magus]

Enochian does not really start out, or in my opinion, work effectively for its own claims as the golden dawn represented it.

The "Elemental" tablets in Enochian do exist, but they are part of the Tabula Collecta, and Liber Tertius is explicit in that point. The tables called elemental in the GD system, are not elemental. Each has the exact same powers in every single subangle. The only difference is the tablets are in the fourfold division of the earth, in respect of the poles - this ties them to seasons, or to geographic locations, or both.


In the lower left subangle of each tablet, there is the understanding of all the elemental information and creatures for that division. One line each for Air, Water, Earth, and Fire. The angels say they are easy to call, and in practice they are very easy to call, indeed. The system demands you have a ring (Michael says "WIthout this, thou shalt do nothing."), it is a very special one, and I have such a ring. I mention this because I find that in general the claims of the system are quite faithful to my experience of it - some people do not think so - and many do not have, or have not properly understood the ring.

I find this, and the lamen to be essential to my Enochian work - both of which came THROUGH my enochian work.

I agree that the Golden Dawn's element attributions seem arbitrary, but to quote Aaron Leitch "the figure given on James' page 103 (The Holy City which is mentioned in Revelation), where the 12 Zodiacal Kings are placed 3 to a direction, and each associated to a Hebrew Tribe. Then, see Agrippa (whom Dee was familiar with and influenced by) for the Zodiacal associations of those Tribes. You will see that even Dee placed the Fire Triplicity upon the Eastern wall of the Holy City, Water in the North, Air in the West, and Earth in the South. This is the zodiacal attribution of Elements to Directions- and is applied to the Watchtowers as well.

Another interesting point presented itself to me one day as I was working with the Watchtowers (specifically the Elders' attributions- which will be covered below). I have stressed above that the Signs of the Zodiac are not to be listed in their proper celestial order- but instead grouped by Triplicity in each Watchtower Tablet. However, if one looks deeply enough, one finds that the proper celestial order of the Signs is in fact preserved in the Tablets after all. Simply begin with Aries in the upper-left-hand Tablet. Then, move clockwise to find Taurus in the next Tablet; clockwise from that is found Gemini; clockwise from there will grant us Cancer; and finally we return to the Fire Tablet for Leo. This continues, of course, for the entire Zodiacal Belt- each Sign falling in order clockwise around the Great Table. I feel it significant that the Fire-Earth-Air-Water pattern of Elements as found in the Zodiacal Belt is preserved in the Watchtowers. No other arrangement of Watchtowers to directions, Elements to directions, or Signs to Watchtowers reveals this perfect pattern."

So the 3 letter god names for each tablet would be the cardinal signs, 4 letter fixed, and 5 letter mutable...seems to make sense to me?

[MMA_Magus]

Back to martial arts. http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=595

Agrippa had a sword style that might be of use to you - but it principally relied upon geometry - then again so does Magick. I have an informal fighting style, that uses a book. I developed it as a child, and in connection with my first big request. At the time i had about 6 weeks of american karate, at the boy's club. Then I was often bullied, and my request was made. The result is for me, the book is a great weapon, and my improvisation with it as a weapon is very effective. It feels *guided.*

Anyone who understands improvisational weaponry can see how a book would be a suitable weapon, and I can rationalize it now - but the effect was I got it at a very young age through an evocation. I have defended my self on the streets of Oakland with a book, even though I had a knife in my jacket. Seriously, books kick ass in more ways than one.

Therefore, it may be of use for you to seek a spirit to learn or request a "style" or maybe just an "understanding" from.

I employ martial arts *very* occasionally these days - but to be honest, I find they are in my opinion, kind of like cooking from a cook-book. i have no need to when I can eyeball all my measurements and have so much experience that my training is not complete enough to represent my true combat capacity. I have, however, trained in the military and alot of that is so informal it just kind of happens.

Thanks for the fencing article, it was very interesting. I have spent time training with fencing, judo, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and many years competing in wrestling and Muay Thai. Now when I do Mixed Martial Arts it's exactly as you described, taking several recipes from various cook books. I would like to enhance all this training with the Magickal Arts. I was thinking invoking the warrior aspect of Christ might be insightful, or maybe evoking Fudo Myo-O (Acala).

[raum215]

Let me explain this clearly.

His work, as most european magic is under veils of secrecy which stretch back to many times. Some are more transparent than others.

Dee left many conficting images, ideas, and accounts. He encodes his work, and makes such mistakes, so much that his physical artifacts left over even have conflicting pieces, that do not vibe with his records, designed to prevent his servants from taking it for their own use.

It is vitally important - that as ever magician knows you TEST the work. Test it by its own accuracy, test it by its own claims. if it doesn't work, as advertised, it is because the work needs work to be revealed.

The reason for that, btw, is not to remain exclusively aswesome... it is because part of the work is correcting the work. No book on the subject will reveal what taking the work and working through it will. No one can hand you a book of the mysteries that you do not have to take apart letter by letter, nor is there a way to make sure you buy the right book for you.

Dee's work is full of a list of 12 Zodiacal kings, and they each rule parts of the earth (Saanir Coasgo) which are found on the Great Table. He is given zodiacal attributions for these. No model of "three tribes per tablet" will suffice to demonstrate this dynamic. Dee tries to work out many things visually, and just because he makes a diagram does not mean it should be taken without looking clearly at it. Dee was told his Kalendar is the Kalendar of God. Look at his Kalendar to see what is relevant in the scope of his work.

Dee comes from a time when most learned men had huge parts of the bible memorized. To learn about the notion of the 12 tribes and the zodiac, study the many possible models that Dee had exposure to - not just Agrippa. Nor assume what Agrippa says is itself not blinded to conceal what those with Biblical knowledge might know. To conceal the work so it may not be abused is TANTAMOUNT to being a magician and a priest. This is the only to make sure it is found properly, buy those with permission.

Enochian does not really start out, or in my opinion, work effectively for its own claims as the golden dawn represented it.

The "Elemental" tablets in Enochian do exist, but they are part of the Tabula Collecta, and Liber Tertius is explicit in that point. The tables called elemental in the GD system, are not elemental. Each has the exact same powers in every single subangle. The only difference is the tablets are in the fourfold division of the earth, in respect of the poles - this ties them to seasons, or to geographic locations, or both.


In the lower left subangle of each tablet, there is the understanding of all the elemental information and creatures for that division. One line each for Air, Water, Earth, and Fire. The angels say they are easy to call, and in practice they are very easy to call, indeed. The system demands you have a ring (Michael says "WIthout this, thou shalt do nothing."), it is a very special one, and I have such a ring. I mention this because I find that in general the claims of the system are quite faithful to my experience of it - some people do not think so - and many do not have, or have not properly understood the ring.

I find this, and the lamen to be essential to my Enochian work - both of which came THROUGH my enochian work.

I agree that the Golden Dawn's element attributions seem arbitrary, but to quote Aaron Leitch "the figure given on James' page 103 (The Holy City which is mentioned in Revelation), where the 12 Zodiacal Kings are placed 3 to a direction, and each associated to a Hebrew Tribe. Then, see Agrippa (whom Dee was familiar with and influenced by) for the Zodiacal associations of those Tribes. You will see that even Dee placed the Fire Triplicity upon the Eastern wall of the Holy City, Water in the North, Air in the West, and Earth in the South. This is the zodiacal attribution of Elements to Directions- and is applied to the Watchtowers as well.

Another interesting point presented itself to me one day as I was working with the Watchtowers (specifically the Elders' attributions- which will be covered below). I have stressed above that the Signs of the Zodiac are not to be listed in their proper celestial order- but instead grouped by Triplicity in each Watchtower Tablet. However, if one looks deeply enough, one finds that the proper celestial order of the Signs is in fact preserved in the Tablets after all. Simply begin with Aries in the upper-left-hand Tablet. Then, move clockwise to find Taurus in the next Tablet; clockwise from that is found Gemini; clockwise from there will grant us Cancer; and finally we return to the Fire Tablet for Leo. This continues, of course, for the entire Zodiacal Belt- each Sign falling in order clockwise around the Great Table. I feel it significant that the Fire-Earth-Air-Water pattern of Elements as found in the Zodiacal Belt is preserved in the Watchtowers. No other arrangement of Watchtowers to directions, Elements to directions, or Signs to Watchtowers reveals this perfect pattern."

So the 3 letter god names for each tablet would be the cardinal signs, 4 letter fixed, and 5 letter mutable...seems to make sense to me?